about DOOM METAL

[Patrick]

Well, it is not the most important question in life, and everyone has his tastes in music...

But I noticed this :

When I think to Doom Metal, I think for examples to bands like : CANDLEMASS, SOLITUDE AETURNUS, PENTAGRAM, PAGAN ALTAR, TROUBLE, SAINT VITUS, THE OBSESSED, DAWN OF WINTER, WITCHFINDER GENERAL, NORTHWINDS, MERCY, ISOLE, MINOTAURI, BEDEMON, PLACE OF SKULLS...

And other people can answer for examples by bands like : MY DYING BRIDE, ANATHEMA, PARADISE LOST, THEATRE OF TRAGEDY, WITHIN TEMPTATION, GRIEF, EYEHATEGOD, THERGOTHON, SHAPE OF DESPAIR, BETHLEHEM, EARTH, SUN O)))...

Do you consider that these bands play doom metal ?
What is doom metal for you ?

[Powerprillipator]

Well, it is not the most important question in life, and everyone has his tastes in music...

But I noticed this :

When I think to Doom Metal, I think for examples to bands like : CANDLEMASS, SOLITUDE AETURNUS, PENTAGRAM, PAGAN ALTAR, TROUBLE, SAINT VITUS, THE OBSESSED, DAWN OF WINTER, WITCHFINDER GENERAL, NORTHWINDS, MERCY, ISOLE, MINOTAURI, BEDEMON, PLACE OF SKULLS...

And other people can answer for examples by bands like : MY DYING BRIDE, ANATHEMA, PARADISE LOST, THEATRE OF TRAGEDY, WITHIN TEMPTATION, GRIEF, EYEHATEGOD, THERGOTHON, SHAPE OF DESPAIR, BETHLEHEM, EARTH, SUN O)))...

Do you consider that these bands play doom metal ?
What is doom metal for you ?

I don't know anybody, who calls the Bands you announced in the second part Doom Metal Bands.

:blink:

PPP

[Goatstorm]

And other people can answer for examples by bands like : MY DYING BRIDE, ANATHEMA, PARADISE LOST, THEATRE OF TRAGEDY, WITHIN TEMPTATION, GRIEF, EYEHATEGOD, THERGOTHON, SHAPE OF DESPAIR, BETHLEHEM, EARTH, SUN O)))...

Do you consider that these bands play doom metal ?

No.

What is doom metal for you ?

CANDLEMASS, SOLITUDE AETURNUS, PENTAGRAM, PAGAN ALTAR, TROUBLE, SAINT VITUS, THE OBSESSED, DAWN OF WINTER, WITCHFINDER GENERAL, NORTHWINDS, MERCY, ISOLE, MINOTAURI, BEDEMON, PLACE OF SKULLS...

[Guest_big mouth]

Yeah the people who considers bands from that second list Doom are just people with absolute no knowledge on all things Metal.... I tend to encounter this more and more on forums these days...please gets on the train and...fuck it...but at the end of the day I will tell you, its no worse than calling METALLICA or TESTAMENt Thrash bands when they always were nothing but Speed Metal acts (and even in TESTAMENT case passed "the legacy" they were just a Heavy/ power Metal act)....

[Guest_big mouth]

And yeah Doom Metal is of course PLACE OF SKULLS, W. GENERAL, P. ALTAR, TROUBLE, ST VITUS, CANDLEMASS, PENTAGAM etc....

[Guest_Patrick]

Yeah the people who considers bands from that second list Doom are just people with absolute no knowledge on all things Metal.... I tend to encounter this more and more on forums these days...please gets on the train and...fuck it...but at the end of the day I will tell you, its no worse than calling METALLICA or TESTAMENt Thrash bands when they always were nothing but Speed Metal acts (and even in TESTAMENT case passed "the legacy" they were just a Heavy/ power Metal act)....

I agree with you, and also with your thought for Metallica and Testament...

I remember in 86, where Hard Rock mag tried to learn to their readers what is thrash metal, and they focused on what they called The Club Of the Four in thrash metal : Metallica, Anthrax, Megadeth and Slayer...
This made me smile because :
Metallica : "Kill Em All" is total crushing speed metal... "Ride The Lightning" and "Master Of Puppets" sounds more powerful speed metal than thrash...
Anthrax : I only like "Fistful Of Metal" which is speed metal... I never like the following records, this shit moshcore or whatever is the name...
Megadeth : for this band, I also only like the first record. It has the spirit of thrash, but it mainly sounds speed metal...
Slayer : was the only total thrash metal band of the list...
By the way, Exodus was not in their list...

[Hugin]

Yeah the people who considers bands from that second list Doom are just people with absolute no knowledge on all things Metal....

Sounds like the good old "If you ain't true you can't have a clue!"-garbage. Sorry if that may sound a bit harsh, but I find all that pretending and self-indulgent trueness so damn annoying. This is true doom, that isn't; this is true black, that isn't... Why can't people just relax and accept the fact that "Doom" in a more general sense is not only the stuff that THEY like, but also other stuff, bordering to other genres, with fluent transitions.

Why should bands like My Dying Bride, Funeral, Fallen, Pantheist, Beyond Belief, Ahab etc... not be Doom? Yep, we already had the fantastic thesis that Funeral Doom isn't Doom but slow Death Metal. Holy cow. Doesn't all that serve the sole purpose of making yourselves looking more "competent" than other people: "How stupid they are... they think that My Dying Bride is Doom, hahaha...".

Before you ask, my favourite Doom bands are the following:
Black Sabbath, Saint Vitus, Candlemass, Pentagram, Count Raven, Isole, Forsaken, Dantesco, Witchfinder General, Revelation, The Obsessed, Place Of Skulls, Against Nature, Orodruin, Reverend Bizarre, Trouble etc...

But I also totally love Funeral Doom / Doom Death acts like Pantheist, Mar De Grises, Beyond Belief, My Dying Bride, early Paradise Lost, Fallen, Funeral etc...; or Drone/Psychedelic Doom like Yob, Bunkur, Khanate etc... and YES, I consider all those DOOM. Some kind of Doom, at least. Bands of those styles also play festivals like Doom Shall Rise, and they fit in perfectly. So why shouldn't they be "Doom"?

I sometimes wonder what benefit people do get from splitting everything into tiny little pieces pretending to know better and to be more knowledgeble about how to define things like "Metal", "Rock", "Speed", "Thrash" or "Doom"... I thought music wasn't a trivia contest but something related to feelings. Especially Doom. Correct me if I'm wrong.
:unsure:

[holg]

Yeah the people who considers bands from that second list Doom are just people with absolute no knowledge on all things Metal....

I thought music wasn't a trivia contest but something related to feelings. Especially Doom. Correct me if I'm wrong.
:unsure:

No need for any correction here.

One may come to the conclusion that those people who do not 'know' what Doom ist and what not have the 'wrong feelings'. Strange.

[Guest_big mouth]

I'm no big mouth for nothing... I knew those few words would bring controversy...strangely enough this isthat kind of stuff that brings most reactyions on this forum... each time there's a new topic listed..if there's 3 posts that's the very best but when there's stuff like this strangely enough people are waking up....
Anyway, to make things CLEAR for those who doesn't know me yet. What I wrote is not to sound arrogant or to sound like I have the truth and you doesn't have it.
But somehow I think people from at the end of the day, I put everything under one label, Metal BUT if subtitles have been invented over the years it's not for nothing either.
Don't forget one thing, back in the early '80s there wasn't all the mix up that happened 10 years later when some foolish started to mess around with evertything..people were very clear with the style. Anybody who would call himself a die hard Thrasher wasn't mixing the likes of TESTAMENT, EXCITER, WASP, ANTHRAX with KREATOR (TORMENTOR), SODOM, or EXODUS. Somebody into ultra heavy shit would have never mess with MY DYING BRIDE and stuff if they hadf existed.
Too bad that the trivia thing is immediatly showed up when you start bringing this over.... don't forget back then things were alot clearer than they are now...nostalgia thing? Maybe I'm just too old and it's just so cool tyo not label anything...but I like to remember the past. That's all....

[holg]

I see your point here ... also with the people waking up B) ... I am old aswell and listening to metal since 1981. Even back in the day I used to like Venom and Pretty Maids, Mercyful Fate and Journey ... I was always looking for something new and the most progressing genre for me was heavy metal with all (!) its colours.

back in the day there were METAL magazines that featured all kings of bands (like Sbakepit is still doing!) but I guess it all started when BM/DM kind of created an underground circle of its own with mags only for that limited subgenre. Later on we got neo-prog, white-core-funk-thrash and progressive-folk-hollywood-metal ... you know the story.

[Guest_big mouth]

I see your point here ... also with the people waking up  ... I am old aswell and listening to metal since 1981. Even back in the day I used to like Venom and Pretty Maids, Mercyful Fate and Journey ... I was always looking for something new and the most progressing genre for me was heavy metal with all (!) its colours.

Glad you understood what I was trying to get thru this answer.... it's not- that easy to get your point across especially with language barriers..

What's clear in my head is the fact that I don't care if somebody comes and use the term METAL for this and that... i do the same... what annoys me so to speak is when people starts using subtitles wrongly, that's where I disagree if the term used is wrong....

Holg, you comes from the old days as well so you do fuckin' know that back then people were using the right subtitles to describe each style because they knew what the style was made of... people were making clear distinctions between each style from poser crap to Death/black metal (yes back in '83!)...you simply can't associate stuff like MEGADETH, TESTAMENT with SLAYER for example.... styles are completely different.... just an example....

[holg]

That gives just two possible explanations:

1) Back then the fans did know better about the background/history of their gavourite bands.

or

2) There were not so many diff subgenres and mixed up genres ...

[Guest_big mouth]

Yeah two options but it's hard picking one... what do you think guys outthere?

[Guest_Patrick]

That gives just two possible explanations:

1) Back then the fans did know better about the background/history of their gavourite bands.

or

2) There were not so many diff subgenres and mixed up genres ...

option 2 is realistic.
It looks like a couple of new subgenres with the word metal appear every six months since the middle of the nineties... plus it can have some subgenres in a subgenre... you can be quickly lost in this...

but option 1 has some truth too.
Back then there was more passion and dedication by the fans... the records and demos they bought, they listened to them for hours and hours with the same interest... they read good zines to know more about the bands and the kind of metal they were into...
Now, the way has changed... they buy a cd, listen to it a couple of times, and then the cd sleeps in its box... a modern way of consomation ?
No tape trading for demos, but downloading mp3 of demos and albums... easy, simple, but they forget the bands.
They go on the web for knowing which are the new bands to be in for the coming six months, while the honest paper zines are dying...

[Hugin]

What's clear in my head is the fact that I don't care if somebody comes and use the term METAL for this and that... i do the same... what annoys me so to speak is when people starts using subtitles wrongly, that's where I disagree if the term used is wrong....

The question is rather what is "wrong" and what is "right". It's just different definitions that people have. In the old days, when the first people used the term "Doom", it was surely reserved for certain bands with a pretty strictly defined style. But let's talk about the godfathers of Doom and of Metal in general: Black Sabbath. I know quite some people beyond the age of 50, who have called me nuts when I mentioned Black Sabbath in the context of "Metal" or "Doom". The were and are TOTALLY convinced that Black Sabbath is nothing else than Hardrock, Psychedelic Rock or Acid Rock. People have totally different definitions of bands and their styles, and I personally consider it pretty weird to try and correct them in that regard. Black Sabbath are simply Black Sabbath. Depending on where you come from, you'll probably file them in different categories. A sixty year old hippie who started listening to them in 1970 will most probably STILL file them under Psychedelic Rock alongside Hawkwind and Amon Düül. A Doom-Metal-lunatic who rediscovered them in 1987 from Candlemass' medley on "Ancient Dreams" will doubtlessly file them under Doom Metal. So, who's right now? The older guy, following your logic?

Ozzy once said about the dispute: "Don't call it Rock, don't call it Metal, don't call it Pop - call it Ozzy-music.". I guess that must be the best solution. At least it avoids quite some pointless fights. And yeah, I guess I am a hippie. Pretty young one with 31 though.