IPODS?

[Cauldron_Born]

While the IPOD already contributes to piracy,I am afraid it will be the death of music as an art in general in the long run. Most people I encounter on a daily basis no longer buy CDs. Even if they don't download the music illegally they only buy the "hit " song or songs from the album and say the hell with the rest. I believe over time that this will lead to the dumbing down of the appreciation of music. Only songs that are immediately catchy on the first listen will be accepted,the rest cast aside. Eventually there will be no interest in the artists who create the music because it all is so depersonalized. It might as well be robots or a machine making the music. Maybe as Metal fans none of this matters to us. I still buy CDs,listen to my old cassette tapes and I have boxes full of vinyl(though I need to buy a new turntable). What do you guys think about this?

[Michael@SacredMetal]

Well, that depends. People who only "own" thousands of MP3s are no real fans of music. Concerning myself: I have a 30GB mp3-player (no iPod, cause iTunes stinks with an iron fist) AND a lot of CDs/LPs and always try to keep my mp3-player updated. I need music wherever I am and so an mp3-player is quite handy.

But overall I need a booklet, I need the lyrics and I need something in my hands.

[Prof]

Sad as it is, you may be very right. And 'in the long run' might eventually turn out to be a bloody short period of time, as the large record-buying public as we knew it is ceasing to exist as we speak.
I'm excepting the individual whose daily life is coloured and enhanced by music, no matter whether he/she's into US-metal, bebop or something else, but younger people are growing up with sounds, not with music. By 'sounds' I mean audio files that are disengaged from packaging, from something tangible.

You can be simple about it and blame the mentality of (illegal) downloaders, MP3-culture and so on. But basically governments, schools and - dare I say it - parents have so far miserably failed to educate the new generations about what music and culture essentially are. And mind you, we're still in the phase that people who actually own CDs transfer them to their iPods - soon, we'll be entering a new dark age where nearly everything is ripped off databases in cyberspace.

It is obvious that you cannot stop technological progression, but you can do something about how the new generations use the tools handed to them. Sadly, I don't see that happening. I know quite a number of parents my age (early forties) who buy blank CD-Rs for their kids, rejoice when their beloved little ones download their first file from the net. One or two of them have played in bands. Music is culture and culture, you have to admit, is not held in high esteem in this world (maybe there's another one, I haven't found out yet).

The oldest record and certainly most illustrious record store in my city is closing its doors on the 29th of March. Why? Because people don't buy CDs anymore. They have hard drives and iPods filled to the brim with tunes they can't even name. To me, music without a record sleeve, a lyric sheet, or without a CD and booklet is the equivalent to the astronaut's pill that substitutes for a fine meal. Where's the soul and enjoyment in that?

[Goatstorm]

I second everything Prof and Michael said.

Like TV or the internet, MP3s can come in very handy if used in the right way. Unfortunately - due to education, peer pressure and the general influence of the culture industry - wide parts of today's listeners have regressed into the state of mere indifferent consumers, with no interest in quality and background research. It's mostly about quantity, the latest trend and the question how easily the songs they want can be accessed.

As far as my runes tell me, music industry as a whole (including the different "underground" sub-scenes) will move in two different directions in the coming years.
The development into the first direction will be driven by aspects like price, comfort, accessibility, flexibility, etc... Eventually this will lead to the death of physical media, especially the CD, and the total domination of download music culture. This development will be driven onward by the big players in the music industry. For them the download sector will be the only way to survive.

The second development will lead into the opposite direction and will be driven by aspects like quality, value for money, listening pleasure, personalization and the possibilities to get "more" of the individual artists. This will lead to even more high quality vinyl releases, boxsets and great packages for those, who want more of their music. This development will mainly be driven by the independent scenes and will of course be the smaller part of the whole thing, since people will grow even more stupid and indifferent by a degree of 37 % in the next 10 years (my runes tell me).

So, what we can expect in the next 10-15 years is in my opinion:
- CDs will vanish
- a lot of small high quality vinyl releases
- the total domination of download music culture

[Michael@SacredMetal]

Men, you make me feel a bit depressed now....;(

[Goatstorm]

Men, you make me feel a bit depressed now....;(

Sad as it is, the runes never lie.

I think the main thing which will lead to the domination of download culture is the aspect of flexibility. The ability to listen to every kind of music you want in every situation imaginable. In wide parts of today's society the factor "flexibility" has grown to become a cultural value in itself. The ability to master different situations and problems in an equally good and smooth way is one of the key qualifications of today. Of course this also affects the sector of free time and leisure, which is mainly congruent with the sector of work today.

[Prof]

In wide parts of today's society the factor "flexibility" has grown to become a cultural value in itself.

Well spoken. This is true for so many things now, and on so many levels. It's the want-it-here-want-it-now aspect of this new mentality and (in my humble opinion) cultural regression that will have a most negative effect on particular valuable things in life. These things are invariably those whose economic viabilty is hard to tell - and therefore have a minor status among the general people.

As for your prediction of the vanishing of the CD, the traditional audio disc might in time disappear. But look how new carriers such as BlueRay are developing - they are yet another industry 'innovation' of conglomerates discarding the carriers that do not make them money anymore. The major players are currently marketing their new toys, the rapidly dwindling number of retailers have no choice but to comply - and the middle class consumer will follow suit.
However, a different form of CD might appear, on a BlueRay (or other type of) disc with multimedia sections, for instance. Would I welcome that? I'm sure I wouldn't. By the way: have you noticed how, with each new carrier, the price per item increases?

That said, I find it most amusing how record stores have had to reinstall their vinyl sections over the last few years, after the LP was declared dead in the late eighties.

[Michael@SacredMetal]

I think the kids would laugh when I tell them that a few years ago I sent US-$$ in envelopes overseas to wait weeks and weeks for a demo-tape (!) to arrive (or not...)

Those were....

[Prof]

I think the kids would laugh when I tell them that a few years ago I sent US-$$ in enevelopes overseas to wait weeks and weeks for a demo-tape (!) to arrive (or not...)

Those were....

Kid in baggy trousers: 'Huh? What are envelopes?'

[Acrylator]

In wide parts of today's society the factor "flexibility" has grown to become a cultural value in itself.

Well spoken. This is true for so many things now, and on so many levels. It's the want-it-here-want-it-now aspect of this new mentality and (in my humble opinion) cultural regression that will have a most negative effect on particular valuable things in life. These things are invariably those whose economic viabilty is hard to tell - and therefore have a minor status among the general people.

As for your prediction of the vanishing of the CD, the traditional audio disc might in time disappear. But look how new carriers such as BlueRay are developing - they are yet another industry 'innovation' of conglomerates discarding the carriers that do not make them money anymore. The major players are currently marketing their new toys, the rapidly dwindling number of retailers have no choice but to comply - and the middle class consumer will follow suit.
However, a different form of CD might appear, on a BlueRay (or other type of) disc with multimedia sections, for instance. Would I welcome that? I'm sure I wouldn't. By the way: have you noticed how, with each new carrier, the price per item increases?

That said, I find it most amusing how record stores have had to reinstall their vinyl sections over the last few years, after the LP was declared dead in the late eighties.

That's all right.
But have you noticed that the prizes for CDs here haven't really increased within the last 18 years? In the beginning of the 90s the prize for a new CD was between 26 and 32 DM, now you can still buy them for 13 to 17 Euro, sometimes a bit more (and Even 1994 some stores sold CDs for 36 DM and more). But in the same period of time the prizes for vinyls have increased to 150 %!


By the way, I like my ipod, it's a good way to take all your favourite albums with you everywhere and it doesn't need much space (I now have over 600 albums in higher quality on my ipod and its hard disc isn't even about half full), but I'll always also buy vinyls and CDs (as long as they are available). I hate to look at covers on the monitor at a small size and you can't hang them onto your walls
And it's also more safe to have "real" albums, if you only got them on your computer, they might be deleted very easy... (and most recordable discs are nothing but rubbish after a few years...)

[holydio1]

I can not handle the point that cds have more (or any) soul than mp3-files. CDs as a medium suck badly and I think without that completely average medium, the downloading thing would not have been exploding so fast. So for me - as I own several thousands of this stupid thing called cd (such an idiot I am....) - the declining of the cd is not a second tearing me apart. Btw I agree with Goatstorm and would welcome more quality releases for the addicts as ourselves.

[Prof]

I can not handle the point that cds have more (or any) soul than mp3-files. CDs as a medium suck badly and I think without that completely average medium, the downloading thing would not have been exploding so fast.

:blink:

The consumer's (lack of) mentality is the key thing here.

[holydio1]

hm, the key thing is - the music consumer knows that the artist does not get any money from the label for the 15 bucks he spends for the cd (maybe 50 cents besides your name is Metallica). So there's no benefit for the band, that's the thinking of the consumers. Hence to download music for free is ok. And I can understand that attitude looking at the behaviour of the music industry in the last 20 years.

[Prof]

hm, the key thing is - the music consumer knows that the artist does not get any money from the label for the 15 bucks he spends for the cd (maybe 50 cents besides your name is Metallica). So there's no benefit for the band, that's the thinking of the consumers. Hence to download music for free is ok. And I can understand that attitude looking at the behaviour of the music industry in the last 20 years.

I do not dispute said 'behaviour of the music industry', but it does not excuse everything. Most people don't care about who gets money from what - the only objective is to get things for free.
You don't go the baker's in the morning, take a loaf of bread and leave without paying, now do you? I will never understand this type of reasoning and attitude, sorry.

[Cauldron_Born]

hm, the key thing is - the music consumer knows that the artist does not get any money from the label for the 15 bucks he spends for the cd (maybe 50 cents besides your name is Metallica). So there's no benefit for the band, that's the thinking of the consumers. Hence to download music for free is ok. And I can understand that attitude looking at the behaviour of the music industry in the last 20 years.

This is a common misconception with the internet age. A lot of people will say"Oh,they don't make their money from CD sales anyway,they really only make their money from touring".

First off bands don't make money touring unless they are Metallica. A lot of them lose their asses going out on the road. Where do you think the money to tour comes from? It comes from borrowing against a band's royalties. What are royalties? Roylaties is that dollar or less a band makes off of each CD sold. If a band isn't selling CDs it isn't touring. A band can't sell CDs when everyone is downloading the music for free.Unfortunately it costs bands and labels money to make music. And yes,there was a time when labels screwed musicians. Now the so-called"fans" and the labels are screwing the musicians. I fear it won't be much longer before musicians can no longer afford to make music with any standard of quality.